Ok… I am not the typical Palestinian… I am an Atheist. I don’t want Israel to be destroyed since it already exists for a while. But I am really angry at how people always blame Turkey and other countries for crimes they committed and go deep in history to ask for apologies, while Israel God’s given land to the Jews or whatever was created on the basis that some people believe they came from an area since 2000 have the right to come back and establish what they had and kick most of the inhabitants out in 1948 and never say a thing about it. All say Israel is the only democracy and I know most of us Arabs are mad as f*, but what’s wrong is wrong and the sacred aura people give to Israel is unbelievable, sometimes I don’t understand it I get fallen into stupid conspiracy theories. Why does America bow to everything Israel orders? Why don’t people try to investigate what happened while still betching about palestinians being terrorists or whatever as if a reaction to what the Jews did in 1948 would not happen? In order for enmity of the Palestinians to decrease Israel and the world must show some understanding to what we suffered… I know the Palestinian exodus / Nakba was not as awful by numbers or acts as the Holocaust but what’s a crime is a crime! People expect us to just be happy be part of or be expelled from a Jewish state for Jewish people! I know about the chrisian zionist fundies but I don’t blame them for their support because they’re idiots. Now don’t tell me just forgive, because in order to forgive the one who did the crime must admit he’s ashamed of it, but Israel and the west keep shoving their myths at it. 6 million Jews were killed it’s awful, but what about the Gypsies where’s their state?… Einstein, a logical scientist didn’t forgive the Germans until he died. Yes, I am repulsed at Israel, I don’t like to hear that word, and I can’t help it.. But maybe if they show me they recognize me as a human I can finally forgive them.
Firstly, i commend you for being the only Palestinian i have ever seen on this site who may be open to a discussion and is not yet set in their opinions.
Next i want to say, that although i am pro Israel, i feel that there are many things that Israel could do better in dealing with the conflct. What they have been doing for the 60 odd years hasnt worked.. so you think it might be time to try something else.
Now, i want to say that i also think that the Palestinians are not innocent in this either. They also need to take responsibility for their contribution to this mess.
I can see both sides. What do i want for the Palestinians? I want them to have a country alongside of Israel. I want them to thrive economically and culturally and to have leaders who dont pocket money meant for the people and then incite their people to martyrdom in order to deflect attention away from their own stealing.I want the wall gone and the checkpoints gone.. which wont happen as long as there is even a chance that a suicide bomber exists.
Just so you know, this conflict did not begin in 1948, but long before. I know this becase my family lived in Israel in the 1880’s and were farmers near where tel aviv stands today. they were unarmed. Their palestinian neighbours burnt their crops and houses to the ground over and over again and shot at them as they worked in the fields.. and they didnt fight back. They got up and rebuilt their homes and replanted their crops.. as my late grandfather said, they didnt have the energy to fight when they needed to eat.After 30 relentless years of this, both my grandfather and grandmothers families both couldnt take it anymore and immigrated to Australia.
So, whilst i do empathise… there are 2 sides to this story.. NOT ONE. Both sides contribute negatively to this coflict, and hence it perpetuates itself.
To resolve it… BOTH sides need to acknowledge their own contribution and come up with ways they can do better. Until this happens, unfortunately there wont be peace… and at the end of the day, peace is in both sides interest. I believe that in a peaceful state.. Palestinians and Israelis would thrive together.
Because in the world at large, faithers are afraid that atheists are gaining in numbers, so faithers ban together.
The concept of a secular ":Jew": is the biggest scam zionists ever pulled over the eyes of the rest of the world. Incredibly, the zionists were made of a majority of atheists way back before Israel was created. But as long as they were non faithers, they got no world support, but as soon as they enshrined the concept of ":Jewish ethnicity": and ":secular Jew":, they were able to coop all the religious forces of the world, rich people, and then gained enough power to create Israel.
Israel is an abomination. A secular Jew is an oxymoron. I’d have to be a atheist Catholic, because my peer group culture was ":Catholic":. No, when one gives up Gods, one must give up the cultural baggage that the human-made-gods begath. To call oneself atheist and not dump all the religious ":cultural BS": is a disgrace to the word atheist.
Last 1400 years Islam had the policy of building Islamic states – Islamic nations and implementing their so called laws – Sharia, etc. A diluted version, if the Jews adopt from them and incorporate their own Judaistic ideology, called Zionism – the world does not approve of. Quite double standards. Islam and Zionism – the only two active religio/politico ideologies Islam is not just a religious ideology. Islam is not merely religion. It has everything to do with state powers and forced moral conduct of its followers. Communist Soviet Union pre 1984 and Communist China too are political ideologies bringing in economic ideology and we have seen the gross violation of human rights and barbarity of their butcher dictators. Who can forget Stalin, Khruschev, Deng Ziaoping, Mao Tse Tung ? All in the name of communism – the economic/political ideology called Marxism/Leninism. Is Islam any better? Ultimately it is the denial and suppression of individual human rights – treating the powerless people as slaves – just having some breathing functions and working functions – nothing more.
Atheist support Israel because they’re not blinede by religion or some religious alliegence, so they see the truth.
The Palestinians cries about Israel crimes during 48′ are more than hyppocritical, because the Israelis and Palestinians acted exactly the same, and the Palestinians have never shown any remorse for their actions, so why should the Israelis?
Palestinians were kicked out of their home? Well, woop-dee-doo, so were Jews. But Palestinians really like to conviniently forget Jews did live in the West Bank and Gaza Strip areas before 1948, and were kicked out by Arabs because they were considered a threat during the war. People aren’t blind, they can all see that while some Palestinians were kicked out others remained at their homes (that’s were those 20% Arab-Israeli citizens come from, isn’t it?) While the West Bank and Gaza were COMPLETELY devoid of Jews for about 20 years.
Atheists also realise that Israel’s importance is beyond religious. Israel is a home for Jews because everywhere Jews were, they were always the pariah. You can tell yourselves all the nicest stories about how Jews and Muslims lived completely at peace with each other before Israel, but deep down, you know it’s the biggest BS in the world. Israel is a way for Jews to defend themselves as people.
Also, Atheist understand Israel’s importance at the fight against Islamist bullying. Do you think Abbas gained his support at the UN because people are sympathetic to his cause? Don’t delude yourself. Abbas went around and threatened that if he won’t have any real achievement to show, the Hamas will take over the West Bank. And who the hell wants to deal with the Hamas? No one. That’s the only reason he got such support.
And crimes may be crimes, but don’t compare an intentional genocide that wiped out 50% of the Jewish population of the world at the time to a war between two people. Jews didn’t come to the 48′ war with the backing of 5 other countries, Palestinians did. The Jews came with gangs, just like the Arabs. They fought with the same guns and ammo as the Arabs. The Arabs lost because they underestimated their enemy. Until this day, you continue making the stupidest deicisions. Wake up.
Atheists have various reasons for supporting Israel.
Some atheists, being a little like yourself, recognize fully that Israel is there and realize the issues of trying to destroy it and the consequences of that action. They may range from still wanting to see Palestine to actually not giving a flying f*ck inbetween: however, at the very least, atheists who support it do so because they do realize the disaster that would follow.
Practically, a lot of atheists do recognize that Israel holds, particularly in terms of scientific research. In addition, many recognize it as not a bad country overall, consisting of many people who just want to live their lives. Concerning other Arabs, perhaps they focus on current Palestinian treatment in the Arab world. Depending on the Atheist and their beliefs and interests, there could be potentially thousands of reasons for why they support Israel.
Others who point to Turkey do look at the fact that Israel is at least being cooperative with the Palestinians. Sure, it’s gone no where, but he general impression is that Israel is still committed to peace. While the Israelis don’t believe in the Naqba, or it’s severity, under the assumption it is as bad as it is claimed they haven’t adopted the Turkish methods, including blackmailing and holding ties hostage in order to make sure that things such as the Armenian Massacre aren’t recognized. Israel has opened dialogue about compensation, even not believing the story to it’s extent, which in of itself is noteworthy.
Democracy is one of the most flawed concepts ever. For example, gather 20 people in a room, force them to choose only between two things:
1- NAMBLA yay, or
2- NAMBLA nay?
The results will either be a draw or a concession.
If any Atheist cared about democracy and human rights, they would support Israel because Israel gives rights to minorities(whether you admit it or not, they do) and there is no other country in the middle east where Atheists would be treated so nicely.
Israel wants to live in peace with Arabs but Arabs NEVER accepted that Israel has a right to exist therefore peace hasn’t happened and won’t happen until Palestinians accept Israel has a right to exist and stop blowing themselves up and launching rockets into Israel.
As an Atheist Arab, you would have more rights in Israel than any Arab nation. You know this too.
Because Israel are doing a good job of fighting the Islam that wants to take over the entire world, on behalf of the entire western world, while it sits back and criticises Israel all day long, while importing Islam wholesale into western society. Israel deports or kills terrorists, instead of letting them live for free in Israel.
I’m not going to support another Islamic **** pit .. there are already too many of those. I’m not going to support a ":country": whose ultimate aim is to wipe another off the map. I’m going to support a country, which in it’s short life, has made something out of almost nothing. Israel is the only country in the middle east which lives in the 21st Century, a country which is a world leader in medicine, education, agriculture, and computer science. A country which is a democracy, where people have equal rights.
I won’t forget the Palestinians celebrating on 9/11, nor will I forget their support of the Nazi’s during WW2. Nor will I forget other Arab nations attacking Israel, because it’s a Jewish state.
Hugo90 : This question is about Atheists, not Christians.
If you examine the evidence you will see that internationally most atheists, humanists and secularists do not support Israel in the way you suggest at all, and are deeply critical of Israeli violations of international law and human rights precisely because the ":God’s chosen people": get-out clauses don’t wash with them.
The thing is… almost every single retarded bast*rd that had just answered pretending to be an Atheist that defends Israel happens to be, for very obvious reasons, a Jew. An Atheist would never use ‘Jewish Homeland’ or ‘Jewish State’ as a legitimate factor or even a factor at all in any argument, let alone in one in which he defends Israel. And every answer from those so-called Atheists was based on either the ‘Jewish-Homeland’ card or the ‘Anti-Islam’ one or both of them together: obviously reasons coming from a Jewish-Zionist kind of mentality as their only Justifications to what they ever do are either for the Support of a Jewish-State or deterioration of a Muslim-Cause no matter what it is.
And honestly, this Holocaust thing is really racist. Not because it receives more attention that it is supposed to, for it is a terrible Genocide as it is, but because it receives more attention than any other equally terrible, if not worse, incident, including those that occurred at the very same time, in more recent times, or are still even going on. It shows how those that keep bringing that topic up while ignoring just-as-much-as-important topics merely because Jews weren’t in the picture view themselves as superior to others. And with this kind of mentality, everything they do, to them, is justifiable. It sickens and scares me,
By the way, I respect rationalist Atheists more than I respect Theists who don’t give what they believe in any consideration or thought merely because it is what their Parents do. And I’m a Muslim.
And to idiot above that says Israel supports Gay Rights, IsraelвЂ™s parliament has been rejecting a marriage equality bill that gets put forward by a Gay MP every now and then for the last 60 years. And I know Arab countries are no better, as even I don’t support Homosexual Marriage for more than just Religious reasons, which nonetheless are still reasons I take into consideration, but let’s give credit where it’s due, alright? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnbGEL6yE…