Why do you insist that Catholics worship Mary? I, and other Catholics, tell you that we do not. Yet you insist that we do, as if you know more about what we think and feel then we do. I was under the impression that we would know what we think better than you would.
Can’t you tell from what we say who prayer is directed to? When we say pray for us and not I pray to you.
Can’t you tell when we say pray for us sinners?
Can’t you tell when we define dulia (reverence or veneration) and Latria (worship) for you?
Can’t you tell when the we pray the Penitential Rite : (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penitential_Rite)
…and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin,
all the angels and saints,
and you here present,
– to PRAY FOR ME –
– To The Lord, Our God. –
What is the stumbling block? Why can’t this be made clear? Do you know what is in our hearts? I thought it was God who knew what was in our hearts and what our intentions were.
Psalms 138 (depending on the ennumeration, it may be Psalm 139)
1 Lord, thou hast proved me, and known me:
2 Thou hast know my sitting down, and my rising up.
3 Thou hast understood my thoughts afar off: my path and my line thou hast searched out.
4 And thou hast foreseen all my ways: for there is no speech in my tongue.
Deuteronomy 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way through which the Lord thy God hath brought thee for forty years through the desert, to afflict thee and to prove thee, and that the things that were in thy heart might be made known, whether thou wouldst keep his commandments or no.
Deuteronomy 13:3 Thou shalt not hear the words of that prophet or dreamer: for the Lord your God trieth you, that it may appear whether you love him with all your heart, and with all your soul, or not.
2 Chronicles 32:31 God left him that he might be tempted, and all things might be made known that were in his heart.
I find it interesting that depending on the context, others will agree that it is God who knows our intentions, regardless of how we may word them.
God knows your heart and is not so concerned with your words as He is with the attitude of your heart.
Look the great Bible scholar and anti-Catholic (mainly because of Mary and the Saints) said this after his conversion.
":Only this I know full well now, and did not know then, that the Catholic Church allows no image of any sort, material or immaterial, no dogmatic symbol, no rite, no sacrament, no Saint, not even the Blessed Virgin Herself, to come between the soul and its Creator. It is solus *** solo in all matters between man and his God. He alone creates: He alone has redeemed: before His awful eyes we go in death: in the vision of Him is our eternal beatitude.": JOHN HENRY NEWMAN
Anyone who says Catholics worship Mary in this day and age is culpably stupid. And usually they won’t even LET YOU deny it.
Because all of Protestantism was originally based on a ":the Catholic Church is wrong": doctrine. So when you start with that, anything Catholics do different from them must be wrong. When faced with actual information that what Catholics do is not wrong, they could accept this and then open the door to the possibility that we are not wrong about other things, or they can cling tightly to their misconceptions believing if they just keep repeating it over and over it will be so. Many choose the latter. For those people the Catholic Church must be wrong at all costs. They cannot ever accept there might actually be validity to asking Mary to pray for us, confession, and ultimately the Eucharist. If that happened they’d have to leave their comfortable beliefs and their whole life would change. So many answers here ":say": that what we say and what we ":do": are different. Please tell me how anyone can know what is in the heart of a Catholic asking Mary to pray for him/her. Only God and the person praying can know the intent in the heart, others on the outside can not and should not. We understand that it can look like worship to those who do not grasp it, but when we say that is NOT what we are doing, we love God and would never worship anyone but him, why not accept this? Why insist that you know better than we do, just what we are doing? ADDED: To Love Never Fails – Mary and the Saints are in heaven. They, nor anyone who attains heaven, will be human any more. In heaven we become perfect, not divine, but perfect. They are no longer limited by their flesh, so your statement makes no sense.
They were probably told that lie from people they trusted not to lie to them: their parents, preachers, teachers, etc.
For a lot of them, that and other lies like it form the basis of their hatred of the Church. A big part of their religious (and maybe even spiritual) identity is based on their hatred of the Church.
So when Catholics try to tell them the truth, they aren’t emotionally ready to hear it: it shakes up their world too much to learn that they have been given false information about an institution they were taught as kids to hate.
Of course some of them know better and still repeat the same old false witness over and over. Why they choose false witness over the truth, I don’t know.
I know exactly what you mean! It is so annoying having to explain the difference between worship and veneration all the time. Most of the time it’s because they’re just ignorant.
I’m not protestant, but I was raised catholic. We were taught that Mary ":intercedes": for us to God. My beliefs changed when I read the bible for myself, and found that Jesus is the only intercession we need. Anything else that comes between us and God is an idol. The catholic church basically teaches that it is insufficient to pray to Jesus, Mary must do it for us. When Jesus speaks to the seven churches in Revelation, I believe He’s referring to the catholic church when He talks to Thyatira:
Re 2:19 I know thy works, and thy love and faith and ministry and patience, and that thy last works are more than the first.
Re 2:20 But I have [this] against thee, that thou sufferest the woman Jezebel, who calleth herself a prophetess: and she teacheth and seduceth my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed to idols.
Re 2:21 And I gave her time that she should repent: and she willeth not to repent of her fornication.
Re 2:22 Behold, I cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of her works.
Re 2:23 And I will kill her children with death: and all the churches shall know that I am he that searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto each one of you according to your works.
Re 2:24 But to you I say, to the rest that are in Thyatira, as many as have not this teaching, who know not the deep things of Satan, as they are wont to say: I cast upon you none other burden.
Not every catholic accepts the teaching about Mary, and for them it will be well. In the old testament, fornication meant idolatry in a spiritual sense.
Then why do you pray to her?
":…and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin,
all the angels and saints,
and you here present,
– to PRAY FOR ME –
– To The Lord, Our God. –
Mary is not a perpetual virgin, she had other children
Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
The Bible tells us that Jesus is the mediator between God and man, not Mary
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus:
So why ask anything of Mary?
I am not knocking Mary, she was a holy woman, but she was not the mother of God, the Bible is clear to say that Mary bare a thing, a body that was prepared, for God to dwell in while He walked planet Earth.
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
In fact, Mary’s last words in the Bible are:
John 2:5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
That was Jesus she is talking about!!!
My Catholic friend, I know you love God, but you would be better off to read the Bible, rather than following your traditions
They bow down to a stone idol.
If it looks like an idol and you bow down to it and say prays to or through it then what are you doing that is different to the heathens?
Their idols are silver and gold, The work of the hands of earthling man. В A mouth they have, but they cannot speak: Eyes they have, but they cannot see: В Ears they have, but they cannot hear. A nose they have, but they cannot smell. Hands are theirs, but they cannot feel. Feet are theirs, but they cannot walk: They utter no sound with their throat. В Those making them will become just like them, All those who are trusting in them.
Why not do as the Bible commands that you seperate yourselves. If I was heathen it would look like you were doing nothing different.
You are not supposed to worship with your eyes since God is spirit.
Choose any search engine you want. Type in ":pope prays to mary": and see how many results you get, many of which come directly from Catholic sources.
Oh,and how can you claim that the Catholic Church was founded by Christ when you’re quoting the OT but nothing HE said? And Mary hadn’t even been born yet…
Note that the Pope prays to Mary:
Edit- So why do Catholics here call those who disagree with the doctrine of the Catholic Church names such as ":anti Catholic bigot": and ":ignorant": and other mean things? Is that not from the heart? Is that what your church teaches to do? I don’t call Catholics nasty names! God knows that, though, so I’m not worried. Personally, I couldn’t care less that you pray TO Mary. I think it’s wrong of you all to lie and say you don’t, but I’m not condemning you for it. And, the fact is that Catholics DO pray TO Mary. ":Hail Mary":: what is that? That isn’t praying TO Mary? You’re hailing Mary. How can you get any more direct than that? So, how do you qualify yourself to tell me what I should keep in mind? I haven’t done anything here but provide links that are proof that Catholics DO pray TO Mary. I did NOT condemn anyone or judge anyone by what I posted.
They want to distance themselves from things like the crusades and witch trials by claiming Catholics aren’t Christians.
I know who I pray to, how I pray, and why I pray. They are just being arrogant, holier than thou jerks.