Is it true that according to Christianity, literally everyone is a sinner and is born a sinner and deserves to go to hell for that? And that because of this situation we all need a major salvation to get us to heaven?
I see so many problems with this. It feels so wrong to me. WE ARE NOT PERFECT. But G-d created us that way! But He’s going to punish us for not being perfect? He’s going to create us imperfect and susceptible to sin and then have a burning wrath for us for sinning, a wrath so burning that we need some ultimate sacrifice to save us from it? What kind of god is this? Do Christians really believe that god is KIND and loving because he SAVES us from his WRATH? This is definitely not my G-d and I really wonder why Christians think it’s theirs…
After reading your ":additional details,": I don’t understand where you are coming up with this view of God and Jesus. I would suggest reading the first five books of the New Testament to see just what is attributed to Jesus. Remember that a Christian is one that follows what Jesus said. Don’t just listen to what someone tells you. Read it for yourself and make up your own mind. Also, if you mean the ":crazy huge sacrifice": being Jesus hung on the cross to die, then you will find the answer from Jesus himself in there as well.
There are some Christian religions that believe in ":original sin": but did Jesus say he was born with it? Jesus is said to have been sinless when he was put to death. Jesus also threw over the tables of the money changers and still he was sinless. Jesus was very close to God and spent a lot of time in prayer with God and I’m sure that had a lot to do with keeping Jesus sinless. It is not, necessarily impossible, for us to be sinless, I don’t think, but then why should we be sin free? Even if I thought I was with out sin I would not say so. Go ahead and sin and see how it affects others around you. Sinning against others or being sinned against helps us learn we don’t like to be around people that sin and that sin is not the best way for society to live.
You say, ":we all need a":major": salvation.": How does that differ from ":regular": salvation? I think you are overdoing it. If you mean by salvation, as being saved from ":burning wrath,": then I would say, ":look in the Bible.": Jesus doesn’t even say you are going to the so called, ":burning wrath.": when you die.
He does say in Mark 9:43
":And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.":
I do not think he is saying to actually cut off your hand or that you will live in a fire that is never quenched. To me it says, if I refuse to turn away from sin, even in front of God himself, my dead body will be burned in a fire and the memory of me by others will be gone. The idea of this use of hell is interesting and it comes from the word gehenna, you can look here for some information on it:
The way I understand it is that we are alive now and that there is a world or life after we die. Is it here on Earth or somewhere else, who knows. We should experience and learn during this life how negative or sinful acts are qualities that we don’t want to be around, but we do what we want now and no harm done, except by our fellow man. What happens when we die is not known.
To me, Jesus does not want us to think we can earn our way into an eternity with him or God. He would want to pick who lives with him whether you call it salvation or an invitation. Just like if I had a home and needed roommates, how would I pick them. If you don’t want to be with God, if asked, then I think you would just be destroyed, whatever that would mean, but I can’t believe it is some sort of a torture. It just doesn’t make sense and is not a loving God as you suggest.
There are many theories about what happens after you die. I like the one that says when Jesus comes back to the Earth that he will restrain the Devil will be held away from mankind for a thousand years. Humans will all learn about God and without Satan’s influence. All people that have ever lived will accept the way of God and Jesus and we will all live forever. COOL HUH, we’ll see.
Is it true that according to Christianity, literally everyone is a sinner and is born a sinner and deserves to go to hell for that?
And that because of this situation we all need a major salvation to get us to heaven?
I see so many problems with this. It feels so wrong to me. WE ARE NOT PERFECT. But G-d created us that way!
Well, he didn’t create us with sin. Sin happened, now it’s this way. The way you said. I’m glad you understand it though, at least you got the story straight.
But He’s going to punish us for not being perfect?
He has sin in a bag. And anyone not covered by His son Jesus is in the bag with it.
He’s going to create us imperfect and susceptible to sin and then have a burning wrath for us for sinning, a wrath so burning that we need some ultimate sacrifice to save us from it?
Not quite. You lost your edge, but you seem pretty bright. Let me put it this way, He has us redeemed by His son, and if we accept His son, we become heirs to the son’s throne. We are washed not only from sins, but also the sin nature, The nature of wrongness is washed away, making us incorruptible, not like Adam who started out corruptible. So we end up better than how it all got started. See now?
Do Christians really believe that god is KIND and loving because he SAVES us from his WRATH?
yup! He didn’t have to do a thing to rescue us. Yet, there He was!
This is definitely not my G-d and I really wonder why Christians think it’s theirs…
You were off a little, and I pointed it out. I’m hoping you can reconsider. He’s kind to those who put their trust in Him.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
No it is not true, the Bible says at Romans 6:23 the bible says the wages sin pays is death, so if you sin when you die you dept is paid. Does it even make since that a loving God would burn someone forever? We would think someone was nuts if we caught someone burning a child’s hand in the fire even for a minute, so how can we say this perfect God with perfect love could do this? If you say Satan does it God just sends people there, since when does Satan work for God and since when does God trust Satan? So the answer is we will make mistakes but Jesus sacrifice covers our sins as long as you don’t abuse this free gift. There is no such thing as a burning hell. Grave and hell means the same thing.
It might be helpful if you think about what sin really means.
Is sin just a simple measure of right vs wrong, or is it something else? The Bible doesn’t get caught up in describing the individual value of each different kind of sin. Instead, all sin is lumped together as if they all carried the exact same weight. How could this be? Our logical mind tells us that things such as murder must be worse than telling lies, and that rape is certainly more horrific than stealing. But, we do not see things as they are. The nature of sin is not a measure of evil, but is a rejection of God in disobedience. The details of the offense are not important since every sin has its root in a rejection of Him.
Why did God make rejection of Him a possibility for us? Rejection of God is possible because God gave us free-will: and free-will would not really exist if we would have been created in a universe in which the choice to accept or reject a relationship with God was not given to us. We could have been made as obedient robots, but it would be impossible for us to participate in a true relationship of love with Him if that were the case. So then, it all comes down to us, do we accept or reject God? It is the only decision that matters as far as our salvation is concerned. This truth can be eloquently seen in the promises and sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Considering things in this light, it becomes easier to understand why some enjoy an eternity in heaven and why others are cast into hell because we are the ones that decide by our acceptance or rejection of God where we will go. Those that do not want God, will not be forced to spend eternity in communion with Him. It is a fair expectation.
it is also important to understand the true nature of hell before coming to the conclusion that God is harsh and cruel. Here is a brief summary of what hell is:
The concept of hell has been subject to a bit of evolution over the years. The popular notion of what it is is incorrect in a number of ways. This mostly has to do with the fact that the earliest versions of the New Testament (King James for example) translated two distinct words from the Greek language as one word, hell: but the Bible actually refers to two different places: Hades(Sheol in Hebrew) and Gehenna(Gehinnom in Hebrew). Hades (or Sheol) is taught to be a place where the dead wait for judgment. Sheol literally means the grave in Hebrew. No one will spend an eternity in Sheol because it will be destroyed after the final resurrection and judgment of mankind. After judgment, the righteous will enter heaven and the condemned will be cast into Gehenna. Many believe that Gehenna is not eternal suffering, but is instead complete destruction of the body and soul. You might want to look into this because I do not endorse any particular idea about the nature of Gehenna. It is a somewhat controversial theme for some. None-the-less, here is a verse that seems to support the idea of complete destruction in Gehenna:
Matthew 10:28 – Stop being afraid of those who kill the body but can’t kill the soul. Instead, be afraid of the one who can destroy both body and soul in hell.
I hope that this helps. Best wishes.
Actually God created man perfect, man sinned, and the earth and all in it became cursed as a result. If God left it at that and we would be stuck forever in this state forever then I could understand your questions and support your line of thinking. However, since God made a way for all to be redeemed through the sacrafice of Christ then the only reason that anyone would face judgment would be their failure to acknowldege his sacrafice.
You don’t have to choose Him. I can’t promise that everything will work out the way you hope but, you are free to choose your own course. You can’t willingly choose a course and blame someone else for the consequences though.
Yes. Yes. Here is why: God’s purpose is to have fit companions (see Genesis) and beings must learn to be acceptable. All men are saved, but if you don’t cooperate with the program there is an intense bootcamp called Hell to help. All people need hell to learn …UNLESS they consciously join with the program and seek to refine and better themselves. It is not wrath (to us it may seem to be) but correction. Maybe some wrath, cause we do the same things wrong again and again- it must be kindof frustrating, hey? Jesus preached one thing- the Kingdom of Heaven. Believe what he taught- YOU do have an immortal soul. Believe what he proved- YOU will live after death. Then decide- what kind of eternity do you want and who do you want to be?
That’s the problem: God did not create us this way. God made us perfect, without sin. He wanted to love us and for us to love Him. So He gave Adam and Eve a choice because love has to be chosen. Adam and Eve chose to put themselves above God and disobeyed His one rule in the garden. Thus sin was born into the world.
Every child that is born is not born a sinner but is born with the sin nature, that is like Adam and Eve we have this nasty habit of putting ourselves before God and trying to be the god of our own lives. This is sin.
God hates sin because God loves us. Ask any parent how they feel about something that hurts their children: hate will probably be in their explanation. Why? Because when you love someone you hate things that hurt them. God hates sin because sin hurts us and separates us from Him.
As far as God’s wrath goes it is much the same: God’s wrath is against sin (the things that pull and tear us away from Him and ultimately lead us down a path of destruction). He is loving because He gave up His Son to die on a cross to save us from the wrath against sin being poured out on us the people who willingly, knowingly chose sin for ourselves, not because He created us that way but because we chose to be that way.
Jesus said that we’re all sinners, and that our sin separates us from God. Because of this, Jesus said, we’re all condemned ALREADY. There is no ":or else": or some later judgment. We are separated right now.
Perfect Justice requires God to punish wrongdoing. Not punishing wrong is not justice at all. Would you want an unjust God?
Perfect grace means that God allows someone to take that punishment on your behalf. If you ran up a huge credit card bill, the credit card company wouldn’t care who paid it off, so long as the price was paid. In the same way, God lets someone else pay off our bill.
Now, that would be cruel based upon the above. No one is blameless, and so there’s no one to pay the price for you. Even if someone were blameless, they’d have to give up their own purity to take your place. Grace without love is simply cruel.
But perfect love means that God wants to stand in your place, and pay the price on your behalf. You don’t have to pay it. You don’t have to convince someone else to pay it. Justice is satisfied, grace overcomes, and love makes us whole.
What’s to object to?
":Is it true that according to Christianity, literally everyone is a sinner and is born a sinner and deserves to go to hell for that? And that because of this situation we all need a major salvation to get us to heaven?":
Not quite – people die for being sinners, they don’t go to hell. And for the most part, we gain everlasting life by salvation, not heaven.
":For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.": – Romans 6:23
":WE ARE NOT PERFECT. But G-d created us that way!":
God created mankind perfect, but man chose to turn away from that.
":But He’s going to punish us for not being perfect?":
I don’t see death as a punishment – just as a natural process that will overtake us if God doesn’t intervene. And before he can do that, it’s necessary to show that there are consequences to disobedience, just as a parent needs to show that to their children – otherwise people would just carry on doing it, and carry on causing problems in the world like they have so far when disobeying God.
You are only familiar with the PAGAN teachings of APOSTATE churches.
Their teachings are based on *pagan* religious beliefs which they adopted,
&: then gave names from Bible. . .
So . . . church-Christianity is ANYTHING BUT Christian:
What Does the Future Hold for Christianity?":
– A Sneak Attack on Christianity
– Christianity Subverted
– True Christians Shining in the Darkness
Our *true Creator* does NOT torment people for having been sinners!
In fact, when people die, they pay the price for sin: death . . .
":The wages sin pays is death.":—Romans 6:23
":He who has died has been ACQUITTED from his sin.":—Romans 6:7
‘Acquitted’ = ":declared not guilty: legally blameless":!
So . . . they will be resurrected WITHOUT imperfection, or, sin . . .
which is the way that our first parents were created in the first place.
God did NOT create us with imperfection.
He created humanity PERFECT, but humanity TAMPERED with its perfection.
However, he HAS provided the way for people to GAIN perfection:
":Restoration to Life":
While this does not apply to the incorrigibly wicked, they will simply remain dead / nonexistent:
":The *future* of wicked people will indeed be cut off.":—Psalm 37:38b
":What Really Is Hell?":
BTW, ‘God’ is not his name—It is only a title.